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Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:37 pm
by Commodore
Now we have the results for Match 3 - A Dragon/Cyrus Victory!
Sargon II was on Level 1 (its second level of 7) and Cyrus was on Level 2 (its second level of 9). Sargon II was playing White.
Given that Sargon has fewer levels I would expect the difficulty to increase more quickly, and if Sargon is the better program, then I would expect it to win on that basis, but it was check mated in 37 moves.
Here is the Gameplay:
Code: Select all
VIC 20 Sargon II Vs Dragon 32 Cyrus Chess Round 3
Sargon II plays White Pieces – Level 1
Cyrus Chess Plays Black Pieces – Level 2 NB there is a level 0 on Sargon II, but not on Cyrus.
1
F2 – F4
D7 – D5
2
G1 – F3
G8 – F6
3
B1 – C3
D5 – D4
4
C3 – B5
B8 – C6
5
C2 – C3
D4 X C3
6
D2 X C3
C8 – F5
7
D1 X D8 CHECK
E8 X D8
8
C1 – D2
A7 – A6
9
B5 – D4
C6 X D4
10
F3 X D4
E7 – E6
11
D4 X F5
E6 X F5
12
E2 – E3
F8 – C5
13
B2 – B4
C5 – D6
14
F1 – C4
H8 – F8
15
O – O
B7 – B5
16
C4 – D3
F6 – E4
17
A1 – D1
F8 – E8
18
F1 – F3
E8 – E6
19
F3 – H3
H7 – H6
20
D2 – E1
A8 – B8
21
D3 – C2
D8 – E8
22
D1 – D5
E6 – G6
23
D5 X F5
E4 – F6
24
E3 – E4
D6 – E7
25
E1 – F2
G6 – G4
26
F2 – D4
E8 – F8
27
A2 – A4
F8 – G8
28
A4 X B5
A6 X B5
29
H3 – F3
C7 – C6
30
G1 – F2
B8 – A8
31
H2 – H3
G4 – G6
32
D4 – C5
E7 X C5 CHECK
33
F5 X C5
A8 – A2
34
F2 – E3
A2 X C2
35
E3 – D3
G6 X G2
36
C5 X C6
C2 – D2 CHECK
37
D3 – E3
G2 – E2 CHECK MATE
To settle this once and for all I will play Sargon on Level 4, Vs Cyrus on Level 5. That is one above half way for each program. I will play each at White.
I am expecting a Victory from Cyrus. If so then I will try BOSS vs Cyrus.
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:27 pm
by Commodore
Unfortunately I had to abandon play due to the VIC 20 taking 20 minutes per move. I ran out of time. Luckily I have all my notes and I took a picture of each of the screens, so I should be able to reconvene at a later date, hopefully tomorrow. The VIC was 4 and even 5 ply ahead, compared with the Dragon on 3 Ply. I am looking forward to the conclusion. On one hand I suppose the VIC 20 looking further ahead may give it an advantage, but if the programming on Cyrus is better, then perhaps not...
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:03 am
by Vato
Great work!
Wouldn't it be possible to play these on emulators on PC's if you're worried about the old hardware? I'm not THAT familiar with emulators, but some might be able to run at faster speeds? That way speeding up the calculations. Just a thought. This just won't be decided until played at the highest levels
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:19 pm
by Commodore
Well that was irritating! Second game in a row which had to be abandoned after less than 10 moves due to the sheer length of time being taken on each move!
Unfortunately time was at a premium today as I had to take the car to the garage and then go back to pick it up later, leaving me a smaller window than I would have liked.
There is definitely an imbalance between Sargon II and Cyrus. Today, based on average length taken over move, I left Sargon on Level 4 (which is 6 minutes - huh, if only!), and I cranked Cyrus up to level 7, which is also supposed to be 6 minutes. At that level even the Dragon 32 takes quite a long time to respond, sometimes as long as the VIC 20. The difference is though, that the VIC 20 works at 4 or 5 Ply, whereas the Dragon 32 works at 7 Ply.
Maybe next time I should try to marry up two levels that work on the same number Ply.
Anyway, that won't be until mid way through the week after next at earliest.
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:21 pm
by Commodore
Vato wrote:Great work!
Wouldn't it be possible to play these on emulators on PC's if you're worried about the old hardware? I'm not THAT familiar with emulators, but some might be able to run at faster speeds? That way speeding up the calculations. Just a thought. This just won't be decided until played at the highest levels
Thanks Vato, and I take your point. The thing is I'm not really a fan of emulators. Unless it's on the real machine, I don't think it can be considered a true result, I'm a bit of a purist like that.
How about if I try to match the Ply levels? That way, theoretically it could be on a lowish level, but if the ply numbers match, then we have found which is the better program.
My money is still on Cyrus for the record, but my heart will always be with the VIC 20.
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:17 pm
by Alastair
Commodore wrote:The thing is I'm not really a fan of emulators. Unless it's on the real machine, I don't think it can be considered a true result, I'm a bit of a purist like that.
However comparing real hardware results with those of an emulator could be a good test of the accuracy of the emulator. For the record I've replayed the above round 3 match on XRoar (xroar-snap-2015-13090-w32), and XRoar matched every move made by the real Dragon.
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:08 am
by Commodore
That's a good point Alastair. I must admit, I think Cyrus is an even greater opponent than the mighty Sargon II. On the other hand, my 12 year old can beat me when I'm tired...
I think next I might try Cyrus against a C64 Chess program. I would love to see the C64 play the BBC Model B; for that though, I have some hardware to buy. My poor wife!
Re: Chess on the Dragon
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 pm
by Commodore
Nothing like resurrecting a 5 year old thread!
I remembered I never got to the bottom of this!
As I recall, it ended with the Dragon 32 with Cyrus beating the VIC 20 with Sargon II.
The matter is unsettled though as I never tried the VIC 20 with BOSS vs Cyrus on the Dragon 32.
I need to check back on Denial and see where I got.
At some point I will be pitching the Dragon vs the BBC Micro though....
I fancy the Dragon in that battle...