disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

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jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

JeeK wrote:
jedie wrote:Again the Question: Has anyone a better disassembled D32 ROM ? Better one as: https://gist.github.com/jedie/6573826 ?
Caution! Sorry, but this listing is not complete. Just an example:
Yes, you are right. I see this also by comparing it with the alternative from Phill and stew :o

What's about to create a public repository on github, so that everyone can contribute?
Yes, the is the unclear copyright situation. Bit IMHO it's extremely unlikely that a company will start a process, isn't it? Especially since the original ROM is available for download in the archive for a long time.

Opinions?
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
sorchard
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by sorchard »

jedie wrote:i'm not yet clear how the D32 <-> D64 ROMDIFF.TXT worked.
ROMDIFF.TXT is the result of a binary comparison between the D32 ROMs and the D64 32K mode ROMs. For each address where there is a difference the file shows the D32 byte and the D64 byte stored at that address. I produced the file to see how different the two ROM sets were. The answer is 'not very'!

The copyright issue is a tricky one. I can see ways where someone could get into trouble, for example by selling ROM images, even old ones, on a compilation disc, but on the other hand I don't see the harm in a group of enthusiasts examining and discussing old code just out of interest. The code is so old I can't see any commercial advantage to be gained by unlocking the 'secrets' within.

Does anyone know if Microsoft has ever made a statement on the status of old ROMs?
Stew
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

sorchard wrote:ROMDIFF.TXT is the result of a binary comparison between the D32 ROMs and the D64 32K mode ROMs. For each address where there is a difference the file shows the D32 byte and the D64 byte stored at that address. I produced the file to see how different the two ROM sets were. The answer is 'not very'!
Hm. My question is, how to assign your D64 comments into a disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Currently i think it's easier to focus me on D64 ;)
sorchard wrote:The copyright issue is a tricky one. I can see ways where someone could get into trouble, for example by selling ROM images, even old ones, on a compilation disc, but on the other hand I don't see the harm in a group of enthusiasts examining and discussing old code just out of interest. The code is so old I can't see any commercial advantage to be gained by unlocking the 'secrets' within.

Does anyone know if Microsoft has ever made a statement on the status of old ROMs?
Don't know... But yes, Microsoft is the only company, which still exists. Isn't it?

I guess they have no more interest in it.
The source code of MS-DOS is public, see: http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/mi ... urce-code/
Disclaimer there:
To access this material, you must agree to the terms of the license displayed here, which permits only non-commercial use and does not give you the right to license it to third parties by posting copies elsewhere on the web.
Other historical source code releases in this series include IBM’s APL programming language, Apple II DOS, Adobe’s Photoshop, Apple Macpaint/QuickDraw, and Microsoft’s Word for Windows.

But i find e.g. the Source code of C64 BASIC for download here: http://www.davidviner.com/cbm9.html
The disclaimer there:
Please note that, while I am making this source available, I'm not really sure if I have the authority to do so. If anyone knows for certain one way or the other then please let me know - I have no intention of treading on anyone's toes!
btw. C64 BASIC is a licences version of the Microsoft BASIC...

And some more BASIC Source Codes are here: http://www.pagetable.com/?p=46
It's the "The Microsoft BASIC 6502 Combined Source Code":
The source can be assembled into byte-exact versions of the following seven BASICs:

Commodore BASIC 1
OSI BASIC
AppleSoft I
KIM-1 BASIC
Commodore BASIC 2 (PET)
Intellivision Keyboard Component BASIC
MicroTAN BASIC
This is available since 2008 ;)
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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tormod
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by tormod »

jedie wrote:What's about to create a public repository on github, so that everyone can contribute?
Yes, the is the unclear copyright situation. Bit IMHO it's extremely unlikely that a company will start a process, isn't it? Especially since the original ROM is available for download in the archive for a long time.

Opinions?
It doesn't make the copyright situation any clearer that the ROM is available in an archive somewhere. The fact that we can find, say, "Transcendence" on Pirate Bay doesn't make it legal for anyone to distribute it. Also for some people the question is if it is legal or not, and not how likely one can get persecuted for it.

Additionally, the file you refer to is a binary ROM dump. Sometimes disassemblies or reverse-engineering of protected works are subject to different rules than the works themselves.

BTW, I remember reading here about someone having the real source listings but who wouldn't publish it.

I have been thinking of sharing a list of comments that I have collected, which people can combine with their own disassemblies. Maybe with scripts to combine and decompose again. I think that would be safely legal.
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

tormod wrote:I have been thinking of sharing a list of comments that I have collected, which people can combine with their own disassemblies. Maybe with scripts to combine and decompose again. I think that would be safely legal.
That is a idea!

EDIT: My collected comments are here: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy/blob/ ... em_info.py
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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tormod
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by tormod »

jedie wrote:I guess they have no more interest in it.
The source code of MS-DOS is public, see: http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/mi ... urce-code/
Disclaimer there:
To access this material, you must agree to the terms of the license displayed here, which permits only non-commercial use and does not give you the right to license it to third parties by posting copies elsewhere on the web.
Exactly, it is public, but far from free. You can not post it on github. Also the non-commercial clause is a strong one, you cannot sell a book which contains any of the sources. I am not sure to which extent the non-commerical clause goes. What if you make some software based on some of the published code, and then want to sell self-made cartridges from it? Or just study the source code to make your own software replicate functionality of it, or interact with it?
This is available since 2008 ;)
For some reason, copyrights are getting longer and longer lifetimes, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ension_Act, c.f. first copyright laws which stipulated 14 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

jedie wrote:
tormod wrote:I have been thinking of sharing a list of comments that I have collected, which people can combine with their own disassemblies. Maybe with scripts to combine and decompose again. I think that would be safely legal.
That is a idea!

EDIT: My collected comments are here: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy/blob/ ... em_info.py
Just a start: https://github.com/6809/rom-info
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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robcfg
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by robcfg »

For the rom, maybe we should follow the msx route, and create new system roms from scratch, compatible with the old ones.

That, if anyone cares, which I think is not the case (neither Dragon Data or Eurohard)...
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

robcfg wrote:For the rom, maybe we should follow the msx route, and create new system roms from scratch, compatible with the old ones.

That, if anyone cares, which I think is not the case (neither Dragon Data or Eurohard)...
Okay... Would be really nice, a OpenSource ROM that's compatible with the original...

But:
1. It's IMHO really, really much work... I didn't think there is enough man power. The Dragon one seems to be very small. Maybe the CoCo has more man power...
2. for 100% compatibility it must be 90% (or more) the same machine code, isn't it? At least: All routine entry points must exist at the same address.
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

Again the Questions: Why are the UNRAVELLED Books exist from the CoCo ROM? IMHO they contain the complete ROM, isn't it? Are they not official? Illegal?
tormod wrote:I updated the Makefile so that it works with lwasm from LWTOOLS. I confirmed it builds a 100% identical Dragon 32 ROM image.
(Make file attached here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4370&start=10#p9207 )

Does it also work with the D64 ROM?

Can you provide a step-by-step guide?

@Stew: I will extract address+comment from your files here and add them to https://github.com/6809/rom-info ... I hope you are not against it.
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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