disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

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JeeK
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by JeeK »

jedie wrote:
sorchard wrote: [..]
But i find e.g. the Source code of C64 BASIC for download here: http://www.davidviner.com/cbm9.html
The disclaimer there:
Please note that, while I am making this source available, I'm not really sure if I have the authority to do so. If anyone knows for certain one way or the other then please let me know - I have no intention of treading on anyone's toes!
btw. C64 BASIC is a licences version of the Microsoft BASIC...
No, this is not the Basic version from a C64, this is the Basic 4 branch, which worked on PETs or CBM 4xxx, CBM 8xxx and in its 4.0+ variant in business line (b-series) CBM II (500, 600, 700 types).
As far as I heard the story Microsoft sold their interpreter to Commodore in a unrestricted manner (Microsoft is never mentioned in the ROMs, it's always called "Commodore Basic"), therefore I am not sure if Microsoft still has any rights on Commodores development, even the roots starts at Microsoft) ...
On the other side Dragons Basic is probably not that independent from Microsoft as in Commodore's case.

BTW, commented Kernal and Basic listings are strayed all over the Internet - never heard of any issue regarding that these are in public.
And even a commented (or uncommented) ROM listing appears in a book (like Databecker did this Commodore equipment), they may had got a permission to print it in the book, but this does not include the right to republish it in any way.
The dragon on my side: http://klasek.at/hc/dragon/
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JeeK
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by JeeK »

jedie wrote:Again the Questions: Why are the UNRAVELLED Books exist from the CoCo ROM? IMHO they contain the complete ROM, isn't it? Are they not official? Illegal?
Even if the permission to print it in a book was given (or not), from this you will never allowed to derive a permission that it could be publish anywhere. You may resell your book without permission of the copyright holder, but a redistribution including a duplication of the material under copyright is only allowed by permission of the copyright holder.
That's most "implementations" of a copyright law currently work.
The Unrevealed Books by itself may be legal, but a scan of this book published on web may not (except the permission was given by the copyright holder).
The dragon on my side: http://klasek.at/hc/dragon/
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

jedie wrote:@Stew: I will extract address+comment from your files here and add them to https://github.com/6809/rom-info ... I hope you are not against it.
With a hacked script (see: https://gist.github.com/jedie/356d51afc2a84bef4f19 ) i created https://github.com/6809/rom-info/blob/m ... 20mode.txt :D

@Stew: It it ok for you? Should i add your real name into the file? Send me a PM ;)
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
sorchard
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by sorchard »

This is certainly a thought-provoking discussion and it's just occurred to me that I've committed a faux pas (legal issues aside) by uploading the disassembly without inserting any form of copyright notice or disclaimer. Sure there is a Microsoft copyright notice buried in the code but this may not be obvious to the casual reader.
tormod wrote:I have been thinking of sharing a list of comments that I have collected, which people can combine with their own disassemblies. Maybe with scripts to combine and decompose again. I think that would be safely legal.
I agree: I think sharing lists of comments is going to be relatively safe. I'm sure lots of evidence can be found for reverse-engineering going on in the past without consequence. (My starting point for disassembling the D64 roms was a series of articles by Brian Cadge in Dragon User) As far as storing ROM images or sources are concerned, it's going to continue to be a grey area unless someone dares to force the issue and writes to Microsoft, for better or for worse.
jedie wrote:Hm. My question is, how to assign your D64 comments into a disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?
I don't think there's a quick way. It's a case of replacing the D64 disassembly with D32 code at the places listed in the ROMDIFF file, then tweaking the related comments where necessary. Not particularly difficult but not particularly fun either. I'll have a go if nobody else volunteers...
jedie wrote:@Stew: I will extract address+comment from your files here and add them to https://github.com/6809/rom-info ... I hope you are not against it.
No problem at all. I'll send you a PM.
Stew
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

I hacked a script that used the "ROM Info file" from: https://github.com/6809/rom-info

See: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4889&p=11422#p11422

Add the ROM info into a existing disassembled ROM file, is also made quick...
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4894&p=11466#p11466 :
tormod wrote:...
You can see a commented disassembly here: http://sourceforge.net/p/toolshed/code/ ... .asm#l4410
Wow. There is the complete commended "Color BASIC 1.3" Listing from "Color BASIC Unravelled"

And http://sourceforge.net/p/toolshed/code/ ... /coco3.asm contains Super Color BASIC 2.0 from "Super Color BASIC Unravelled".

What's with the copyright in the ToolShed project?
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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tormod
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by tormod »

Don't ask, don't tell :) I guess it is unclear...
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

tormod wrote:Don't ask, don't tell :) I guess it is unclear...
The interesting thing is, that the BASIC is very similar to the Dragon one.

Maybe we can compare and adopt some same lines ;)
... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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tormod
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by tormod »

The Dragon BASIC shares a lot with the CoCo Extended BASIC. Code sections have been shuffled around, partly to combine better what in CoCo is the original BASIC ROM + the Extended BASIC ROM which patches itself into the first, and partly to make the Dragon BASIC ROM "different" enough to avoid lawsuits according to the anecdotes.

When I ported HDB-DOS to the Dragon I was comparing the CoCo and Dragon ROM dumps and in most cases just needed to locate almost equal code sections but at different addresses, in order to translate the needed ROM entry points.
jedie
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Re: disassembled Dragon 32 ROM ?

Post by jedie »

... too many ideas and too little time ... Related stuff written in Python:
Dragon 32 emulator / PyDC - Python Dragon 32 converter: https://github.com/jedie/DragonPy
DWLOAD server / Dragon-Lib and other stuff: https://github.com/6809
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